- EO Charging gives a turnkey service for automobile fleets, together with all of the {hardware}, software program and repair parts of the electrification stack. President and Chief Industrial Officer John Walsh instructed us that the software program and upkeep layers of the stack are the keys to charger reliability.
- Fleets typically overestimate the quantity of energy they’ll must maintain their EVs charged. Detailed modeling within the early levels of a challenge, together with good vitality administration, may also help a fleet keep away from the prices and delays concerned with upgrading a utility connection.
- Totally different fleets have totally different infrastructure wants. EO charging presents month-to-month fee plans based mostly on the variety of chargers, kilowatt-hours delivered, or miles traveled, with a purpose to tackle totally different buyer wants.
Q&A with EO Charging’s John Walsh
How is offering charging infrastructure for EV fleets like operating a website or a mobile phone community? All of those worthy endeavors (amongst others) rely upon a stack, which is a hip approach of describing a system of interrelated {hardware} and software program merchandise that operate collectively.
Some layers of the stack could also be easy, and others could also be complicated. Some could also be seen as commodities, and others might rely upon extremely specialised proprietary know-how. Some could also be set-it-and-forget-it methods which can be anticipated to work easily, and others could also be—for need of a greater time period—a ache within the neck.
In an rising area akin to EV charging infrastructure, it might be onerous for potential clients to determine how the totally different layers of the stack match collectively, and which layers require particular consideration. So as to add to the confusion, the solid of characters is giant, and the relationships amongst them might be complicated—just like the checklist of dramatis personae in a Victorian novel. Some firms concentrate on one layer of the stack, and others supply a turnkey package deal, offering all of the services themselves and/or subcontracting with different companies.
What’s one of the best course for a fleet operator to steer? Does it make sense to combine and match totally different firms for various layers of the stack, or is it higher to contract with a turnkey supplier, maybe for a set month-to-month value? For some solutions, Charged sat down with John Walsh, President and Chief Industrial Officer of EO Charging, who defined how the layers of the EV fleet charging infrastructure stack match collectively, and provided some ideas for purchasers.
Charged: What sort of clients does EO Charging serve?
John Walsh: We do all depot charging, so our goal clients are transit authorities, college districts and fleets, akin to Amazon, FedEx, UPS, DHL. Additionally, the truck OEMs which can be beginning to come on-line now—Daimler, Bollinger, Workhorse—we’re focusing on these as effectively.
The issue on this trade is that everybody’s all in regards to the cupboard and the {hardware}. That’s the most important problem with charging in the present day—everybody thinks, “Man, if I might simply get that wall field on the wall or get that charger within the floor, I’ve bought what I would like.” And it’s solely the start.
Charged: You had been previously Chief Industrial Officer at Proterra, an organization that we’ve written about lots. I for one thought it was an awesome firm, and I used to be shocked when issues turned pear-shaped. What occurred?
John Walsh: What occurred to Proterra by means of the lens of John Walsh may be very disappointing. I left the corporate over a yr in the past, slightly bit earlier than the storm hit, as a result of I noticed the ship sinking. We went public, we did a SPAC, we had numerous capital that bought burned by means of very quick, and…simply mismanagement, I might say, greater than something.
However don’t quit on Proterra. The corporate was bought in three items—battery methods, chargers and buses—and there are three totally different house owners now. Proterra had one of the best battery know-how on the planet, and it’s nonetheless one of the best battery know-how. There are numerous firms that can use their battery methods and have numerous success. I feel the Volvo Group [which bought Proterra’s battery business] will prosper by means of the know-how that was given start by Proterra.
Sorting by means of the stack
Charged: For fleets, there are numerous items to the charging puzzle. You will have your individual proprietary software program, and also you supply a full turnkey package deal for fleets.
John Walsh: We do. It’s known as a stack, and it’s actually six easy factors.
The primary half is session, the place you sit down and perceive the utility, perceive the depot.
The second piece is your design and your set up—you dig up the bottom and you place the chargers in.
The third bullet is the {hardware}—we do enterprise with about six OEM {hardware} firms. And to us, it’s a buyer’s alternative. We’ll give them what we really feel like are some good options based mostly on the facility ranges that they want. While you discuss to EO Charging, you’re not speaking to ABB, Heliox or Siemens—you’re speaking to all of them as a result of we’re hardware-agnostic.
The fourth piece is the software program. And this is part of the stack that’s actually essential that folks overlook. The software program is your fourth bullet, then your fifth bullet is upkeep “Oh, wow. You imply it’s a must to preserve the chargers?” Nicely, you have to preserve your automobile, proper? So, completely.
After which the final piece, and possibly an important piece we’ve got, is a technical operations middle [TOC]. If in case you have a mobile phone, there’s a technical operations middle that’s resetting your cellphone all day lengthy, and also you don’t even comprehend it. That’s what we’re capable of do—we are able to see that charger within the floor.
We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep. If you happen to choose a software program supplier and a separate upkeep supplier, then it’s two totally different cellphone calls. That’s what clients are annoyed with. One cellphone name for that full stack—design it for me, put it within the floor, give me the {hardware}, preserve it for me for 10 years—that’s the answer they’re searching for, and that’s what we do.
One in all our unique traders was an organization known as Amazon, and so they demanded 99% uptime. And that’s what we provide clients. You may ask Amazon, “Inform me about EO, and inform me about your uptime,” and so they’d say it’s 99.7. They are going to inform you that, not us—they’re a really demanding buyer.
“We’ll do elements of the stack a la carte. The one factor we won’t decouple is the software program and the upkeep.”
Depot chargers are dependable, aren’t they?
Charged: Charger reliability is a scandal, and I strongly suspect that numerous the issues are as a result of there is likely to be half a dozen firms and organizations concerned with a challenge.
John Walsh: You’ve hit the nail on the pinnacle. We do companion with sure clients or sure firms. For engineering, we would companion with somebody. I’ll companion on the high of the stack, however as soon as it’s within the floor, it’s all me. It’s my software program, it’s my upkeep, it’s my TOC, and that’s the important thing to reliability that everybody’s complaining about.
Charged: Now, I do know you don’t do public charging, you solely do fleet depot charging. I’m guessing the latter doesn’t have as many challenges with reliability. Am I proper?
John Walsh: No.It’s simply as unhealthy. I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I used to be as soon as at an APTA [American Public Transportation Association] assembly—all transit companies—and I requested them, “Who has 90% reliability at your depots? Who has 80% reliability?” It was after I bought to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their fingers. It’s not a quantity that we’re making up.
If we go to a buyer and so they say, “We’ve bought three totally different manufacturers of chargers on this large depot as a result of we purchased them at totally different occasions, and we ended up shopping for ABB, Siemens and Heliox,” we are saying we don’t care. They might have to take a look at three screens. They’ve three totally different software program packages and three totally different upkeep methods. With us, it’s all on one display. I feel that’s actually what our secret sauce is, and that’s the most important promoting level of our firm—the {hardware} is agnostic to the software program, and we’re capable of see every thing in a single spot from an operations middle.
“I’m sorry to report that reliability with depot chargers is about the identical as with public. I as soon as requested a bunch of transit companies about reliability at their depots, and it was solely after I bought to 70% and 60% that folks began elevating their fingers.”
For these about to affect
Charged: How about some handy-dandy ideas for fleet operators? What are among the issues that may go unsuitable, and the way can they keep away from them?
John Walsh: The one you hear essentially the most is “You must pay money for your utility yesterday.” And to me, that’s a broad reply. What does that imply? Once I attain the utility, what do I ask them? There’s so many fleet operators, massive, massive firms, that simply don’t know what to do.
What’s the distinction between a UPS facility and an Amazon facility? They’re in all probability 50 years aside. UPS, they’ve been round for an extended, very long time, in order that they have buildings that they by no means thought they might electrify. Then you’ve got Amazon—most of their buildings are model new, and they’re making ready for electrification. So, the error I feel will get made is, when you take UPS for example, they’re going to say, “We bought 100 vans. Now we have to cost all of them. We’ve bought one megawatt of energy coming into the constructing. We want 5.” And they’re going to instantly contact that utility, as a result of that’s what everybody tells them to do, and inform them, “I would like 4 megawatts extra energy.” And that’s once you hear everyone busting out laughing at the back of the room.
Nicely, they don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. We do numerous modeling for purchasers. “That is what number of automobiles we’ve got. That is the vitality storage on board, and that is how a lot energy we’ve got on the depot.” We mannequin for them the scale charger they want, however we additionally assist them handle the vitality as soon as it comes into the constructing. I ship it in two totally different instructions. I ship it to the ability conveyor belts, and I ship it to the chargers, however I’m not going to cost these EVs all day lengthy. I’m going to cost them at particular occasions of night time at a sure energy degree.
Don’t over-capitalize the challenge. Do your homework and take into consideration how a lot energy you actually need into that facility. You may work with the utility on that, but additionally work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that piece out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash—and I’m speaking hundreds of thousands of {dollars}—to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of. That’s in all probability the most important mistake I’ve seen in doing 200 deployments on the depot facet.
If we hear a buyer say, “Nicely, we’re simply doing a pilot,” we are saying, “Okay, however the place do you go from there?” They are saying, “I’m going to do 10 buses, and I’m going to do 10 chargers, and let’s see the way it goes.” That’s actually not a good suggestion. What we’re doing numerous proper now with clients that did that 10 years in the past, we’re ripping every thing out—rip and exchange. Now, the know-how’s modified, I’ll provide you with that. However on the identical time, they actually didn’t do a correct job of setting themselves as much as scale.
There was a transit authority up in Canada that constructed a brand-new facility, 400 buses below one roof. They knew from the start they had been going to cost 400 buses, however they solely did 60 to start with. However the facility, the lanes had been arrange so they may simply add the chargers as they went alongside. Every thing within the facility was able to go. Planning for scale is one thing that’s tremendous, tremendous essential.
“Fleets don’t essentially want as a lot energy as they assume. Don’t over-capitalize the challenge. Work with firms like EO that can assist you determine that out so that you don’t spend a bunch of cash to place energy right into a constructing that you simply’re by no means going to make use of.”
Charged: I believe (I’ve a suspicious thoughts about this stuff) that 10 years in the past, a few of these fleets thought, “We bought a authorities grant, so we’ll do a pilot, and that’ll fulfill the greenies, after which we’ll return to enterprise as normal.”
John Walsh: That’s proper. I feel that’s precisely what they had been considering. Is it political? It may be in some circumstances the place we’ve got to take care of a authorities mandate. What I like about Florida, there’s so many purchasers which can be going electrical that don’t must. One of many first electrical fleets within the US was Star Metro, the transit authority in Tallahassee, and people buses function on Florida State’s campus. Now, these buses, 14 years in the past, they solely went 30 miles on a single cost. How did they handle that? They used en route charging. Nicely, in the present day, on an electrical bus, you possibly can go 250 miles. Now, their chargers are on the depot, like a daily fueling station. They replenish at night time, and so they run all day lengthy.
Cost your fleet for one month-to-month price
Charged: You supply a whole turnkey service for a month-to-month fee. How does that work?
John Walsh: We’ll package deal our Stage 2 charger with the software program, the upkeep, the technical operations middle, and cost one month-to-month price—it’s $59. That bundle is actually engaging to numerous fleet clients.
We provide a month-to-month fee by charger, by kilowatt-hour, or by mile. A buyer can select their program, as a result of their wants fluctuate. Some clients have numerous idle time. Some clients are placing numerous miles on the market. Some are charging and discharging fairly a bit as effectively. I’ve DHL in New York Metropolis, and so they say, “We don’t want numerous batteries on our vans, as a result of, in your complete day, we would go 20 miles,” as a result of they’re caught in site visitors in Manhattan. That’s totally different from someone in Kansas that is likely to be operating a good distance. So, we wish to give these choices to clients and allow them to select.
Charged: Are there some conditions the place a buyer assumes they’re going to wish DC quick chargers, however they are able to get by with the Stage 2 and keep away from among the procurement bottlenecks?
John Walsh: Yeah, that’s precisely what occurs. Now we have our personal charger known as the Genius Fleet, which is a Stage 2 charger, 19.2 kilowatts. We really feel prefer it matches with numerous fleet clients as a result of they’re going to make use of a Rivian van or a Ford E-Transit that has roughly 100 kWh of storage on board. The dimensions of the charger is actually engaging—you don’t must get right into a Stage 3, which might be very costly. And the neat factor in regards to the Genius is we’ve got them in stock. There’s no ready on switchgear or charger {hardware}. If a buyer says, “I would like 10 chargers,” we are able to ship them inside 24 hours. Now we have them warehoused across the nation.
We make our personal Stage 2 charger in Europe, however the one we’ve got right here within the US is made for us by IoTecha. After which on the DC charger facet, ZEROVA, Kempower, ABB, a number of of those producers, once you see our label on it, it’s a must to stroll across the again of the charger to see that it’s someone else’s. We try this simply from a branding standpoint, however once more, we’re agnostic to the {hardware}. So long as it’s OCPP 1.6-compliant and we get good service from them, we’re completely happy.
The same old questions on tendencies
Charged: Individuals are predicting a wave of consolidation within the EVSE {hardware} market. There’s numerous firms, and a few them lately went belly-up: Tritium, Freewire.
John Walsh: I feel it’s a development. There’s completely going to be consolidation. With fleet, college bus and transit, that {hardware} has to fulfill Purchase America requirements. That implies that that charger needs to be in-built america, and it has to have 70% US content material. That shrinks down the variety of firms. Not too long ago, you in all probability noticed that Siemens purchased out Heliox. We predict that’s factor as a result of we expect Heliox has a very good product and actually good service.
Are there too many charger firms? I don’t know that there’s ever an excessive amount of of something. I might say we’d like the suitable variety of charger producers that construct good merchandise and may service their merchandise. And that’s the place EO is available in on the service and upkeep facet. However I feel consolidation is completely going to occur.
Charged: How far alongside are we with the Megawatt Charging System?
John Walsh: Now we have a bunch of them within the floor. We provide a 1.44-megawatt charging system, and I find it irresistible as a result of it’s possibly half the scale of a van, and it matches within the nook of the depot. I can cost 40 automobiles on one charger, and I can put in a 60 kW, a 150 kW output. I can combine and match it for a buyer, which is very nice. It’s a cost-saver, it’s simpler to keep up, and it permits a buyer to essentially scale as a result of they put that within the nook of a depot, after which they will add one other one and one other one, and so they can actually get their complete fleet electrified with out chargers taking on area.
Charged: So, MCS permits you not solely to cost one automobile at a super-high charge, however it means that you can break up that up. Is that one thing you possibly can’t do with CCS?
John Walsh: You may, however you’re restricted—let’s say you’re taking a 150 kW charger, you possibly can put two dispensers on it, however that’s all you are able to do. On this one MCS charger, I can put 40 dispensers, and I can cost concurrently or sequentially. It actually provides you versatility.
Charged: What about V2G? Is it nonetheless a pilot-stage know-how, or have you learnt of some business purposes?
John Walsh: We’re partnering with BorgWarner on V2G. I do know them rather well as a result of they acquired Rhombus, which was considered one of our companions at Proterra. They do have the know-how, however it’s nonetheless very a lot in a pilot stage. The varsity bus market actually desires it, and so they need it at scale. I feel V2G will get pushed by the shopper. Dwelling right here in Florida, if we’ve got a storm and the electrical energy goes down, effectively, I’ve bought an influence station proper right here—we’ve bought 1,000 college buses sitting there stuffed with vitality. I simply must have the potential to drag it off that bus and into one other automobile or a facility. However I nonetheless assume it’s in pilot—I can’t provide you with an instance of a business utility the place I’m seeing it at scale but.
